EE Lightning T5: Stage 1 - Beta Prep

08 Jul 2016 15:54 #29586 by Algernon
I'm going to try and look into a better way of organising tasks and feedback, but for now, this is the thread for all discussion regarding the preparation of the T5, currently in unreleased development, for a Beta release in early autumn. Let's crack on! :)
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08 Jul 2016 17:13 #29587 by ScottBouch

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09 Jul 2016 09:49 #29595 by Algernon
So, first things first - the T5 currently has a temporary panel as I broke the other one whilst separating out the instruments. That needs to be fixed fairly quickly, so I'll start on that over the weekend. Hopefully this will also sort out the missing vertices and faces too (if I do a better job!)

Gear animations are overdue. I'll get the T5 on my animation jig and get those fixed too.

And in conjunction with Scott, I'll get the correct U/VHF modelled and operational, as building radios in FGFS is one of my favourite tasks! :)

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09 Jul 2016 10:35 #29597 by ScottBouch
I'm away for the weekend, but was wondering if you could pinch elements from the F1A model, as the RPM gauges work. The T5 fuwl gauges don't have the red "minimum contents" needle, but are otherwise similar.

I'll get you some more photos next week.

Cheers, Scott

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09 Jul 2016 11:32 #29598 by StuartC
The old F1 model is very old and put together in a very archaic way. Using bits off it is painfull as you need to hunt down all the parts manually. Also, modifying the F1 in any way caused the damn thing to brake, that's why we choose to go all new with the F6/T5

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09 Jul 2016 20:04 #29600 by Algernon
Yeah, I would be careful about trying to take anything out of the old F1A - as Stuart says, it's arduous work - however, we could just remodel the 3D objects and use the textures from the F1A (converting RGB is a bit annoying, but not as annoying as the 3D work).

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10 Jul 2016 19:48 - 11 Jul 2016 08:34 #29615 by ScottBouch
Hi guys, understood - let's see how I can help you start from your new foundations up then!

I'll have the PTR-175 and ARC-52 radio controllers photographed over the next couple of days. These radios (and their respective controllers) were also used in loads of other British cold war era aircraft... even the humble Chipmunk trainer! - So the controller model you end up creating may help to improve the accuracy of other aircraft models too - on that note, do you keep a library of common components or do you just pinch bits from other models?

Out of interest - in the past, how have you gone about getting measurements of panels / instruments / controllers etc..?

Cheers, Scott
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11 Jul 2016 10:03 - 11 Jul 2016 11:16 #29616 by ScottBouch
Ok, on the topic of radio controllers, I've updated my website a bit..

The older ARC-52 controller (UHF Only) looks like this: www.scottbouch.com/arc52.html

The later PTR-175 controller (VHF and UHF) looks like this: www.scottbouch.com/ptr175.html

I will compile a list of which lightning models used which radios, but I currently can defiantly say the T5 and F6 used the VHF/UHF PTR-175.

I've also seen:

PTR-175 in Vulcan B2, Jet Provost Mk3A, Shackleton AEW2
ARC-52 in Lightning F2A, Canberra B2, Buccaneer s Mk2B, Jet Provost MK3

High res photos may be tomorrow-ish..

Cheers, Scott
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12 Jul 2016 08:45 #29625 by Algernon
Great stuff. Feel free to start a new forum topic in this section for the U/VHF as we're about to start on it - that way, we can also go into the operational details too. As I mentioned briefly earlier, FlightGear deals with radio comms in a half-decent way, and we can model a good deal of the functionality quite well, but we run into complications with the dual control element of the T5. Not big complications, but worthy of its own thread. I've got a few things to do today, and am sick off work so spending a lot of time dozing at the moment, but should be able to spend some time discussing and making a start on the 3D model...

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12 Jul 2016 16:05 #29668 by Algernon

ScottBouch wrote: You'll note that some of the laminated Perspex lamp holders are couterbored into the panels, resulting in a flush finish. Such as the switch panels A3 and A5. Also the E/F Band Homer controller (they are painted black and just look like big screws)
...
There is one unusual place for one of the proud thumb screw black lamp holders, ant that's in the end of the Auto Pilot handle, on the Port side!

This questions were off-topic in the cabin lighting thread, so I'm asking them over here:

1. What does the E/F Band Homer do? Is it just a beacon? If so, who are the intended recipients?
2. This autopilot handle of which you speak - I didn't know about this, I thought there would be a switch on the control column(s) and then the rest of the controls on the FCS/AP panel. Could you give me a brief rundown of the handle, its operation, and any additional controls? Presumably it has illuminated writing, hence the lamp holder?

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12 Jul 2016 16:42 - 12 Jul 2016 16:42 #29671 by ScottBouch

Algernon wrote: 1. What does the E/F Band Homer do? Is it just a beacon? If so, who are the intended recipients?


Allows you to locate the source of a jamming signal. You can then fly toward it and relaease your missiles.







This gives a brief description of what the radar disaply unit shows:


Those extracts came from the aircrew Manual - weapons from the website you showed me recently.

Algernon wrote: 2. This autopilot handle of which you speak - I didn't know about this, I thought there would be a switch on the control column(s) and then the rest of the controls on the FCS/AP panel. Could you give me a brief rundown of the handle, its operation, and any additional controls? Presumably it has illuminated writing, hence the lamp holder?


Yes you're correct, there is a switch on the control column, the FCS Engage switch, it can be set to ~OFF, FD (Flight Director) or AP (Auto Pilot), and the rest of the modes are controlled from the FCS controller.

The Autopilot handle (proper name "Little Stick" is the chunky round-ish affair on the front of the FCS control unit. This allows you to set bank angle and vertical speed. It also had a motor inside the FCS controller, when taking direction from the radar, Tacan, ILS, etc, the little stick rotates on it's own according to Bank Angle!

The little stick has a lamp in the left hand side to illuminate the vertical speed wording: "DOWN" and possibly "UP" (TBC)

That PDF from the aircrew manual I gave to you the other day contains all the details.
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12 Jul 2016 16:46 #29672 by Algernon
Ah, the Little Stick! Yeah, I know what that is. One of the more complex objects I've done in Blender, I remember it well...

Thanks for the info.

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12 Jul 2016 16:51 #29673 by ScottBouch

Algernon wrote: Ah, the Little Stick! Yeah, I know what that is. One of the more complex objects I've done in Blender, I remember it well...

Thanks for the info.


So back to the original question, the lamp holder in the end of the little stick is identical to the ones I photographed earlier from the radio controllers. ;)

Would you like the dimensions?

Cheers, Scott.

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12 Jul 2016 16:56 #29674 by Algernon
No, no worries there thanks - as it's not a moving part, it can form part of the texture rather than being an object in its own right, thus cutting down on unnecessary 3D polygons and the dimensions will more or less fall into place if the texture is the right size :)

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03 Aug 2016 23:11 #30206 by Algernon
I've set a release deadline for the T5 - Sunday 14th August. Will post here when it's available!
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04 Aug 2016 09:25 #30214 by Algernon
One of the things I hope to release on the T5 is a new, modular approach to internal and external lighting which we can roll out across all of our aircraft. Scott, you could really help me out here - from previous experience, whilst internal lighting is easy enough to figure out from the pilots notes, the position and type of external lights can be more tricky. Can you run through the external lights that would be found on a T5, their position and characteristics, please?

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04 Aug 2016 12:52 #30221 by ScottBouch
Yes, ok..

It'll take me a little while to get it all together, hopefully before your deadline of the 14th though!!

Cheers, Scott.

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04 Aug 2016 13:36 #30227 by Algernon
Doesn't have to be too in-depth, can probably be worked out from a photo of the switch panel. Don't spend too much time, as I can probably do it myself from the pilots notes - but any observations from real-life that could be helpful are much appreciated.

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04 Aug 2016 13:47 - 04 Aug 2016 13:49 #30228 by ScottBouch
Description coming soon, but here's the circuit!



I have a flasher unit from a Jet Provost in the garage... if it's the same I can rig it up to get the timings from it!

Cheers, Scott
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04 Aug 2016 15:15 - 09 Aug 2016 14:15 #30231 by ScottBouch

Section of Panel A3

Nav Light switch has 3 positions, up, centre, down for steady, off, flashing.

Switch Centre:
All navigation and refuelling lamps off.

Switch Up:
Rear white lamps, either side of lower jet pipe - steady on (Navigation lamp)
Red and green lamps in wing tip leading edges - steady on (Navigation lamp)

Switch Down:
Rear white lamps, either side of lower jet pipe - steady on (Navigation lamp)
Red and green lamps in wing tip leading edges - steady on (Navigation lamp)
White lamp on top of spine - flashing (Anti-Collision lamp)
White lamps under wing tips - flashing (Anti-Collision lamp)

The refuelling probe lamps have a switch high up (just near the ASI) and can only be turned on when the Nav Light switch is either up or down.

Taxi Light switch is 2 position, up / down for on / off. These are the bright lamps on the main undercarriage legs. It is independent of the navigation lamps, so can be turned on when the nav lamp switch is in the centre position.

Here is the Specto Flasher Unit Type A:



In a puerile sense I find it quite amusing as it's adjacent to the Excitation Unit... and not a million miles from the Fast Erection button...

Cheers, Scott.
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